Comments on: Deep Thought Thursday: Satisfying an Unreasonable (?) Client http://www.artbizblog.com/2009/12/dtt-unreasonableclient.html for the Business of Being an Artist Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:18:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Alyson Stanfield http://www.artbizblog.com/2009/12/dtt-unreasonableclient.html/comment-page-1#comment-16767 Alyson Stanfield Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:42:42 +0000 http://www.artbizblog.com/?p=4732#comment-16767 Thanks for that, Jeff! All: The artist sent me this update: "Just wanted to update you and everyone that offered ideas and support with my 2 year old commission. I met with him several days ago and he asked me how I liked the finished piece. I told him it was perfect and that there was nothing more I could do with it. He said "ok" and thanked me. and that was it. I think reading some of the comments really helped give me the confidence I needed to talk with him. Thank you and everyone. Merry Christmas and a happy and financial successful new year." Thanks for that, Jeff!

All: The artist sent me this update:

“Just wanted to update you and everyone that offered ideas and support with my 2 year old commission. I met with him several days ago and he asked me how I liked the finished piece. I told him it was perfect and that there was nothing more I could do with it. He said “ok” and thanked me. and that was it. I think reading some of the comments really helped give me the confidence I needed to talk with him. Thank you and everyone. Merry Christmas and a happy and financial successful new year.”

]]> By: Attack it head on — Art Biz Blog http://www.artbizblog.com/2009/12/dtt-unreasonableclient.html/comment-page-1#comment-16495 Attack it head on — Art Biz Blog Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:01:40 +0000 http://www.artbizblog.com/?p=4732#comment-16495 [...] in December, I ran a Deep Thought Thursday about how to satisfy an unreasonable client who has hired you for a commissioned piece of art. I presented a particular situation (which you [...] [...] in December, I ran a Deep Thought Thursday about how to satisfy an unreasonable client who has hired you for a commissioned piece of art. I presented a particular situation (which you [...]

]]> By: Jeff Freeman http://www.artbizblog.com/2009/12/dtt-unreasonableclient.html/comment-page-1#comment-15507 Jeff Freeman Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:14:01 +0000 http://www.artbizblog.com/?p=4732#comment-15507 I do voiceover, which, although it should technically be considered a performing art, leaves an object in the form of an audio file (is it an object? Interesting to ponder. But I digress...). When I work with a client, I make sure they understand that I will rerecord for performance, but only two times (if they're that unhappy with my performance, they shouldn't work with me) and any script changes will incur a new fee. Basically, I'll do what it takes to make you happy, but if you change your mind, you have to pay for it. Then, as we correspond on the project, I make sure to gently remind them of different points of our agreement as we go along. I have found that people respond quite well to consistent friendly reminders. I do voiceover, which, although it should technically be considered a performing art, leaves an object in the form of an audio file (is it an object? Interesting to ponder. But I digress…). When I work with a client, I make sure they understand that I will rerecord for performance, but only two times (if they’re that unhappy with my performance, they shouldn’t work with me) and any script changes will incur a new fee. Basically, I’ll do what it takes to make you happy, but if you change your mind, you have to pay for it. Then, as we correspond on the project, I make sure to gently remind them of different points of our agreement as we go along. I have found that people respond quite well to consistent friendly reminders.

]]> By: Alyson Stanfield http://www.artbizblog.com/2009/12/dtt-unreasonableclient.html/comment-page-1#comment-15467 Alyson Stanfield Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:48:06 +0000 http://www.artbizblog.com/?p=4732#comment-15467 I appreciate everyone's thoughtful responses here. I know that however this artist responds will be based on individual circumstances. Every situation is different, so we can't say that what applies here should be applicable to someone else. But we sure do learn from others. Thank you! I appreciate everyone’s thoughtful responses here. I know that however this artist responds will be based on individual circumstances. Every situation is different, so we can’t say that what applies here should be applicable to someone else. But we sure do learn from others. Thank you!

]]> By: Lane Whitney http://www.artbizblog.com/2009/12/dtt-unreasonableclient.html/comment-page-1#comment-15464 Lane Whitney Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:42:27 +0000 http://www.artbizblog.com/?p=4732#comment-15464 I like Maria Brophy's practical suggestions. I would add that in the future, have a financial contract that stipulates changes can be requested up to "x" number of days after the acceptance, delivery, and final payment of the commission. If changes are requested within this time, they are made at no additional cost. (Recommended: 30 days) If the request for changes is made after this period of time, it will cost the client additional fees to make the changes-- and as suggested, you could charge by the hour for the changes to be made. I would stipulate how much an hour you charge in your original contract. All changes must be listed, written out, and signed by you and the client as a one time only list whether before or after the (30) day period. You may also want to limit the number of changes that can be requested, say up to ten, in the original contract as well. A great book for help in this is Calvin Goodman's "Art Marketing Handbook." This is an incredible resource in handling these matters. When I first started as a portrait painter twelve years ago, I had trouble with a couple asked me to make a few changes and over the course of the weekend, added more and more and more. I was exhausted from painting 14 hours a day to make them happy. The integrity of the painting began to suffer. I finally said, "It is done. I can do more." The wife promptly said, "I love it." I know now that if I had not drawn the line, she would have continued to request changes. I learned that some personalities are like this. So don't be afraid to set a boundary and see what happens. I like Maria Brophy’s practical suggestions. I would add that in the future, have a financial contract that stipulates changes can be requested up to “x” number of days after the acceptance, delivery, and final payment of the commission. If changes are requested within this time, they are made at no additional cost. (Recommended: 30 days) If the request for changes is made after this period of time, it will cost the client additional fees to make the changes– and as suggested, you could charge by the hour for the changes to be made. I would stipulate how much an hour you charge in your original contract. All changes must be listed, written out, and signed by you and the client as a one time only list whether before or after the (30) day period. You may also want to limit the number of changes that can be requested, say up to ten, in the original contract as well. A great book for help in this is Calvin Goodman’s “Art Marketing Handbook.” This is an incredible resource in handling these matters.

When I first started as a portrait painter twelve years ago, I had trouble with a couple asked me to make a few changes and over the course of the weekend, added more and more and more. I was exhausted from painting 14 hours a day to make them happy. The integrity of the painting began to suffer. I finally said, “It is done. I can do more.” The wife promptly said, “I love it.” I know now that if I had not drawn the line, she would have continued to request changes. I learned that some personalities are like this. So don’t be afraid to set a boundary and see what happens.

]]> By: Sari Grove http://www.artbizblog.com/2009/12/dtt-unreasonableclient.html/comment-page-1#comment-15463 Sari Grove Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:00:29 +0000 http://www.artbizblog.com/?p=4732#comment-15463 Geez...Go to the meeting...Remember these people are your collectors & they are re-collecting...Precious to you...Christmas is on its way, think of it as your gift to them...Forget about the money...Do it right the way they want one last time...End on a good note...Just do it...Ignore your costs...You have spent 2 years on this, heck with it finish the job right. You will then have deep respect from these people for following through such a tough number...Obviously military people have had tough lives, so they expect others to work just as hard as they have. C'mon, make us proud. Forget about your profit or whatever is holding you back & just do this last thing he wants. Then you are done. It is probably the very last request. Just say it if it is not said- this is the last revision I'm going to do...I'm tired & I am going to screw the work up if I change it anymore...Anyway, whatever you say, just remember how hard our predecessors worked & for how long- 2 years was normal a long time ago...You gotta end friends with these people if you can...Why not? Money should not be your problem at this point- you obviously care about the work more than money, so let's not pretend you do...be an artist, not a businesswoman at this point- I know this is Art Biz blog, but sometimes the best way to do business is not to...Set it free & it will come back to you...Let the money go on this one, for Xmas, & it will come back in some other way in the new year. promise. Geez…Go to the meeting…Remember these people are your collectors & they are re-collecting…Precious to you…Christmas is on its way, think of it as your gift to them…Forget about the money…Do it right the way they want one last time…End on a good note…Just do it…Ignore your costs…You have spent 2 years on this, heck with it finish the job right. You will then have deep respect from these people for following through such a tough number…Obviously military people have had tough lives, so they expect others to work just as hard as they have. C’mon, make us proud. Forget about your profit or whatever is holding you back & just do this last thing he wants. Then you are done. It is probably the very last request. Just say it if it is not said- this is the last revision I’m going to do…I’m tired & I am going to screw the work up if I change it anymore…Anyway, whatever you say, just remember how hard our predecessors worked & for how long- 2 years was normal a long time ago…You gotta end friends with these people if you can…Why not? Money should not be your problem at this point- you obviously care about the work more than money, so let’s not pretend you do…be an artist, not a businesswoman at this point- I know this is Art Biz blog, but sometimes the best way to do business is not to…Set it free & it will come back to you…Let the money go on this one, for Xmas, & it will come back in some other way in the new year. promise.

]]> By: Stephen Filarsky http://www.artbizblog.com/2009/12/dtt-unreasonableclient.html/comment-page-1#comment-15462 Stephen Filarsky Thu, 17 Dec 2009 06:16:42 +0000 http://www.artbizblog.com/?p=4732#comment-15462 Commissions and clients, dealing with living breathing people, this is what makes it all interesting and fun! My wife and I have been painting portraits for a living going on twenty years now. We both ran our own businesses (not art related) before we met. Commissioned paintings, portraits and the sale of our paintings is our entire income, so believe me, we take this type of situation very seriously. In the past, we have also had retired military officers for clients, and at least one had been a general. Difficult to work with, yes. Very difficult, yes. Anyhow to get to your situation As someone noted above you have to work with clients as equals. After two years, it's time to say no. You might have to practice saying it. " I'm sorry, no." or " No, I can't" (Funny thing is, sometimes the client will say "Oh, Okay" and that's the end of it.) Forget the win-win talk. You are way past that. Not knowing the financial part of this situation, whether you have been paid in full or not it is hard to make a suggestion. Do you want to make them happy? or do you want to walk away and forget about it. Either way, The only way for you to have any power in this situation is to be able to walk away from it. If you want to give it one more shot, you have to take control of your meeting. Meet them and say, This has been going on for way too long, No one is happy. I have bent over backwards have been unable to please you, but we will resolve the situation now, this is the last meeting. Again without knowing the money situation I don't know exactly what your options would be. If you are owed money still and they have possession of the painting, at the very least you will get your painting back to your studio and have some more power in the relationship. You say he intimidates you in a nice way. Well, take that and turn it around. Acknowledge that to him, "You know, it seems that you are very nicely and politely trying to intimidate me." Smile and a little laugh. Later, let him know when he tries it again. "Your doing it again,," It will disarm that weapon of his. The more I think about your situation, I encourage you to try a another meeting, If you are willing to walk away, you can meet with him as an equal. And have the opportunity to learn and practice. If you are willing to walk away, it will be a game to you. Have fun with it.Think of it being a scene from a movie and you are playing a part. If you are willing to walk away, you have nothing to lose and everything to win. Just let him know. This is it. One last general note, Clients and collectors look at their paintings in an entirely different way than you and I do. You have to find out what is important about it to them. As I tell our clients, I'm going to deposit the check and spend the money, it will be gone by next week. You will be looking at the portait for the rest of your life. That's rule number one. Number two is, don't start work without a deposit and nothing leaves the studio until it is paid in full. In the past, our artist friends have discussed commission contracts with us. Theirs looked like mortgage agreements, pages long, with so many stipulations and clauses and this and that. We now have a one sheet agreement with really says nothing. It has space to describe the work and record the price and payments. Working with the clients on rule number one to establish a relationship is much more powerful than any clause you can have in a contract. Commissions and clients, dealing with living breathing people, this is what makes it all interesting and fun! My wife and I have been painting portraits for a living going on twenty years now. We both ran our own businesses (not art related) before we met. Commissioned paintings, portraits and the sale of our paintings is our entire income, so believe me, we take this type of situation very seriously.

In the past, we have also had retired military officers for clients, and at least one had been a general. Difficult to work with, yes. Very difficult, yes. Anyhow to get to your situation

As someone noted above you have to work with clients as equals. After two years, it’s time to say no. You might have to practice saying it. ” I’m sorry, no.” or ” No, I can’t” (Funny thing is, sometimes the client will say “Oh, Okay” and that’s the end of it.) Forget the win-win talk. You are way past that.
Not knowing the financial part of this situation, whether you have been paid in full or not it is hard to make a suggestion.
Do you want to make them happy? or do you want to walk away and forget about it. Either way, The only way for you to have any power in this situation is to be able to walk away from it. If you want to give it one more shot, you have to take control of your meeting. Meet them and say, This has been going on for way too long, No one is happy. I have bent over backwards have been unable to please you, but we will resolve the situation now, this is the last meeting. Again without knowing the money situation I don’t know exactly what your options would be. If you are owed money still and they have possession of the painting, at the very least you will get your painting back to your studio and have some more power in the relationship.
You say he intimidates you in a nice way. Well, take that and turn it around. Acknowledge that to him, “You know, it seems that you are very nicely and politely trying to intimidate me.” Smile and a little laugh. Later, let him know when he tries it again. “Your doing it again,,” It will disarm that weapon of his.

The more I think about your situation, I encourage you to try a another meeting, If you are willing to walk away, you can meet with him as an equal. And have the opportunity to learn and practice. If you are willing to walk away, it will be a game to you. Have fun with it.Think of it being a scene from a movie and you are playing a part. If you are willing to walk away, you have nothing to lose and everything to win. Just let him know. This is it.

One last general note, Clients and collectors look at their paintings in an entirely different way than you and I do. You have to find out what is important about it to them. As I tell our clients, I’m going to deposit the check and spend the money, it will be gone by next week. You will be looking at the portait for the rest of your life. That’s rule number one. Number two is, don’t start work without a deposit and nothing leaves the studio until it is paid in full.
In the past, our artist friends have discussed commission contracts with us. Theirs looked like mortgage agreements, pages long, with so many stipulations and clauses and this and that. We now have a one sheet agreement with really says nothing. It has space to describe the work and record the price and payments. Working with the clients on rule number one to establish a relationship is much more powerful than any clause you can have in a contract.

]]> By: AnnaMaria Windisch-Hunt http://www.artbizblog.com/2009/12/dtt-unreasonableclient.html/comment-page-1#comment-15444 AnnaMaria Windisch-Hunt Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:54:52 +0000 http://www.artbizblog.com/?p=4732#comment-15444 Well, John Singer Sargent said a long time ago. You can only please one person in a family and hopefully it is the one making the purchase. Well, John Singer Sargent said a long time ago. You can only please one person in a family and hopefully it is the one making the purchase.

]]> By: Suzette Fram http://www.artbizblog.com/2009/12/dtt-unreasonableclient.html/comment-page-1#comment-15423 Suzette Fram Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:07:58 +0000 http://www.artbizblog.com/?p=4732#comment-15423 Since you have re-done the painting several times, it's time to tell the client (as nicely as possible) that you have done everything possible to satisfy them and feel you have fulfilled your agreement with them. Tell them that you regret that you will be unable to do any more work on this painting. And walk away. You don't really want any more from these people, now, do you? Since you have re-done the painting several times, it’s time to tell the client (as nicely as possible) that you have done everything possible to satisfy them and feel you have fulfilled your agreement with them. Tell them that you regret that you will be unable to do any more work on this painting. And walk away. You don’t really want any more from these people, now, do you?

]]> By: Sandra Haynes http://www.artbizblog.com/2009/12/dtt-unreasonableclient.html/comment-page-1#comment-15409 Sandra Haynes Sun, 13 Dec 2009 02:14:40 +0000 http://www.artbizblog.com/?p=4732#comment-15409 Please let us know how this all comes out..... I once advised an artist friend in the same situation to write a gracious note advising the client that the situation was something she could not fix, offer to give them the painting "as is". (She had already collected 3/4 of the total commission price.) And then walk away and not contact them again. As it turned out they took the painting to their vacation home, it fit with the color scheme and they fell in love with it. And they paid the balance. I'm not saying it will work out that way for you, but the point is....take a stand and walk away from it. Sometimes the oddest things happen. Sometimes they don't. Chalk it up to a lesson and vow never to get in that situation again. Please let us know how this all comes out…..
I once advised an artist friend in the same situation to write a gracious note advising the client that the situation was something she could not fix, offer to give them the painting “as is”. (She had already collected 3/4 of the total commission price.) And then walk away and not contact them again.
As it turned out they took the painting to their vacation home, it fit with the color scheme and they fell in love with it. And they paid the balance.
I’m not saying it will work out that way for you, but the point is….take a stand and walk away from it. Sometimes the oddest things happen. Sometimes they don’t.
Chalk it up to a lesson and vow never to get in that situation again.

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